Kathy Barrios has never belonged to just one place or one role. Born in New York, raised in New Jersey, living in Oslo, and Colombian by ethnicity, she carries multiple homes with her. That same range shows up in her work. As a fractional CMO, she’s partnered with VC-backed companies across various industries, constantly shifting gears to help founders sharpen their stories and claim their space in the market. She’s also a co-founder in stealth mode, a mentor to marketers, and someone who’s learned to stop giving a sh** about failing.
When Jill and I sat down with Kathy, we discussed embracing discomfort, advocating for others, and what we can learn when things don’t come so naturally or easily.
Here are three things we learned about growth, how to think about failure, and what it means to build teams.
If It Was Easy, Someone Would Have Done It Already
When we asked Kathy about her recent LinkedIn post suggesting that unclear or uncomfortable work isn't a sign you're doing it wrong, Kathy was direct: If it was easier, more people would have done it already.
From a positioning perspective, things aren't easy and they're never one-and-done. You have to iterate over and over. Messaging evolves. It's never finished. You're constantly trying to cater to different people and different markets.
The joy of work and life is trying to figure things out. Kathy can be working on a renewable energy company one day and a deep dev tech tools company the next. She has to shift her brain constantly, learn new industries where she's not an expert, and help companies move forward anyway.
It's hard. But it's also a thrill. Because once you accomplish something, once you get through it after failing a gajillion times, it feels good. You got a great customer or article in the press. You pitched something and it resonated. You increased revenue. The failure is what makes the win so much sweeter.
Kathy's learned to get more comfortable with failing as she's gotten older. Earlier in her career, she second-guessed herself constantly. Like most of us, she wanted things to be easier. But the struggle actually helped because she learned from it. That's why she's comfortable being wrong all the time now, and that's freeing.
At BAM, we call it "f*ck-ups and failures." Every Thursday, we ask the team: What are your f*ck-ups and failures this week? Because failure is baked into growth. It's inevitable. And if you're not comfortable with it, you'll never take the risks that lead to the wins.
You Have Responsibility to Build Up Your People, Not Just Blame Them
One hard truth Kathy gives founders that gets pushback? As you scale, you need motivated people on board. And as a founder or CEO, you have a responsibility to teach, motivate, and grow those people.
Too often, Kathy said, we forget to educate and teach. We believe young people will just learn magically or by osmosis. And if they don't know, maybe they're not smart enough.
Her feedback is to challenge that assumption. You're not just building a product and a great position. You're building up the people you have. Stop blaming. A lot of times it's: "We didn't make the number because of X, Y, and Z." But the real question is: Was this clear enough for them? Did they know why they had to do it? Did they get the information they needed? Did they get training?
Sometimes Kathy gets pushback on this too. So it's a matter of repeating it over and over again. But towards the end, it's always well-received.
Part of her work is helping founders transition teams and build the culture they need, whether in commercial strategy or across the organization. You can't just reverse-engineer a target and expect people to hit it. You have to bring people into the conversation. They're all different. And thank goodness for that.
Hustle Culture Loses You Motivated Talent
When we asked Kathy about hustle culture (which worked for her earlier in her career but stopped working when her priorities shifted) she was blunt: Companies that elevate hustle culture as the only mode of work will lose people. Specifically, they'll lose motivated people.
There needs to be space for recovery, and it shouldn't be seen as weakness. Flexibility and mental health awareness aren't perks. They need to be built into the organization. Otherwise, you'll lose talent and that's the bottom line.
Kathy admitted she went back and forth on this herself. At first, she was frustrated with Gen Z: Where's the pep? What's going on with this generation? But then she realized: These folks are quite intelligent. They're onto something. It's been years of learning from them. And she's seen it clearly in her teams — when people are driven into the ground, they don't think properly. They're just ‘doing’ like a hamster on a wheel, and that's no good.
When people are clear-headed, when they feel good and alive and motivated, they work better. It's a performance asset, not a sign of weakness.
What Gives Kathy Hope
We asked Kathy what gives her hope about the future of work. Her answer: That more people, different people, will get an opportunity to do something they've never done before.
It's true that people can do whatever they want to do, and it doesn't look like perfection throughout the journey. We can support and empower that. We can help build towards that future.
After listening to our conversation with Kathy, we hope listeners are more committed to making space for failure. To asking what people need, not just what numbers they hit. To advocating for folks who need to be brought up more. Because that's what leaders do. They don't just build products and strategies. They build people.
And when you do that — when you get comfortable failing, when you challenge assumptions, when you actually teach instead of blame — that's when growth happens.
Listen to the full episode of Work Made Human to hear more from Kathy Barrios about growing up in New Jersey, why she almost wants to go to law school to advocate for people, and the exact moment her dog had a potty accident mid-interview (we kept it in because we’re human and that’s the point).
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